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	<title>Comments on: Symmetrical PR meets the &#8216;Cluetrain Manifesto&#8217;</title>
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		<title>By: Book Review: &#8216;Putting the Public Back in Public Relations&#8217; &#171; ToughSledding</title>
		<link>http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/2008/09/25/symmetrical-pr-meets-the-cluetrain-manifesto/#comment-18224</link>
		<dc:creator>Book Review: &#8216;Putting the Public Back in Public Relations&#8217; &#171; ToughSledding</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 23:50:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/?p=1098#comment-18224</guid>
		<description>[...] PPBPR ignores most of the PR literature and fails to acknowledge PR innovators. The idea that &#8220;PR is about relationships&#8221; didn&#8217;t originate in social media circles or with this Social Media Manifesto. PR scholars like Jim &amp; Larissa Grunig, Otto Lerbinger, Albert Sullivan and practitioner-lecturers like the late Pat Jackson began the relationship discussion in the late 1970s and they wrote about it extensively for 25 years. More of my thoughts here. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] PPBPR ignores most of the PR literature and fails to acknowledge PR innovators. The idea that &#8220;PR is about relationships&#8221; didn&#8217;t originate in social media circles or with this Social Media Manifesto. PR scholars like Jim &amp; Larissa Grunig, Otto Lerbinger, Albert Sullivan and practitioner-lecturers like the late Pat Jackson began the relationship discussion in the late 1970s and they wrote about it extensively for 25 years. More of my thoughts here. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: So who&#8217;s this Peter Shankman guy&#8230; &#171; Melissa Marchionna&#8217;s Blog</title>
		<link>http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/2008/09/25/symmetrical-pr-meets-the-cluetrain-manifesto/#comment-17673</link>
		<dc:creator>So who&#8217;s this Peter Shankman guy&#8230; &#171; Melissa Marchionna&#8217;s Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:59:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/?p=1098#comment-17673</guid>
		<description>[...] the practice of PR. For 2.5 of those 5 years, I’ve been arguing they are not (most notably in this post). Have social media tools like blogs, social networks, bookmarking, etc., altered how we practice [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the practice of PR. For 2.5 of those 5 years, I’ve been arguing they are not (most notably in this post). Have social media tools like blogs, social networks, bookmarking, etc., altered how we practice [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Are social media changing the DNA of public relations? Not one bit! &#171; ToughSledding</title>
		<link>http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/2008/09/25/symmetrical-pr-meets-the-cluetrain-manifesto/#comment-17132</link>
		<dc:creator>Are social media changing the DNA of public relations? Not one bit! &#171; ToughSledding</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 18:17:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/?p=1098#comment-17132</guid>
		<description>[...] the practice of PR. For 2.5 of those 5 years, I&#8217;ve been arguing they do not (most notably in this post). Have social media tools like blogs, social networks, bookmarking, etc., altered how we practice [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the practice of PR. For 2.5 of those 5 years, I&#8217;ve been arguing they do not (most notably in this post). Have social media tools like blogs, social networks, bookmarking, etc., altered how we practice [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Sledzik</title>
		<link>http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/2008/09/25/symmetrical-pr-meets-the-cluetrain-manifesto/#comment-16574</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Sledzik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 21:56:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/?p=1098#comment-16574</guid>
		<description>Ah, magnifico!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, magnifico!</p>
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		<title>By: Judy Gombita</title>
		<link>http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/2008/09/25/symmetrical-pr-meets-the-cluetrain-manifesto/#comment-16573</link>
		<dc:creator>Judy Gombita</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 20:50:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/?p=1098#comment-16573</guid>
		<description>Hey Bill, congrats on this post being published in another country/language on the national PR association website of ferpi. I bet you sound really smart in Italian!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Bill, congrats on this post being published in another country/language on the national PR association website of ferpi. I bet you sound really smart in Italian!</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Sledzik</title>
		<link>http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/2008/09/25/symmetrical-pr-meets-the-cluetrain-manifesto/#comment-16567</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Sledzik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 20:34:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/?p=1098#comment-16567</guid>
		<description>Not sure I have any qualms with what you&#039;ve laid out, Bob.  Besides, it&#039;s impolite to argue with a Steelers fan (though you are probably more sober than most).

In PR, we are advocates and we&#039;re beholden to those who sign the paychecks. To believe otherwise -- well that&#039;s utopian.  But we also must act in the boundary-spanning role to help our clients and employers understand and better align with the needs of our key publics. We must be their advocates, too.  I&#039;m convinced, based on experience, that no one else at the table is gonna do this -- most particularly the marketers. 

I don&#039;t have any problem reconciling advocacy and boundary spanning, and always tried to play that dual role in my career. I recall many a day at the &quot;table&quot; when I was the lone voice shouting &quot;no.&quot; I was seen as &quot;not team player.&quot;  

&quot;Why are you so negative all the time?&quot; one boss used to ask me.  I managed to resist the obvious:  &quot;Because I&#039;m surrounded by morons with tunnel vision and no morals.&quot;  (Hey, I worked in advertising agencies too long. What can I say?) To be honest, the lack of moral fiber in business is the primary reason I had to leave the business.  I no longer had the courage to fight that battle, and I saw what was coming -- a shift from responsible business practices to practices based solely on maximizing shareholder value, aka, greed, greed, greed.

But I agree that the 2-way symmetrical model is utopian in may ways.  And that&#039;s precisely why I admire it.  It gives us a beacon, and it helps to remind us that the goals of the organization must align with the public interest or we&#039;re all in deep, deep shit.  The events unfolding this week in Washington are a grim reminder that the business world, and those who regulate it, have lost their moral way.  A little symmetry would do us a lot of good. 

As for the Excellence studies, I&#039;m not gonna say too much there.  While I don&#039;t embrace all of the conclusions, I do admire the values that come out of the work.  It&#039;s been a long time since I read them, so I don&#039;t want to misstep.

I&#039;m sorry I didn&#039;t jump in on the PR Conversations thread about all this, but I&#039;m keeping a low profile during the sabbatical and spending a lot less time online. Besides, I don&#039;t look nearly as smart when I&#039;m with the PRC gang.  A very intelligent bunch over there.

Be well, friend.  And thanks for dropping in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure I have any qualms with what you&#8217;ve laid out, Bob.  Besides, it&#8217;s impolite to argue with a Steelers fan (though you are probably more sober than most).</p>
<p>In PR, we are advocates and we&#8217;re beholden to those who sign the paychecks. To believe otherwise &#8212; well that&#8217;s utopian.  But we also must act in the boundary-spanning role to help our clients and employers understand and better align with the needs of our key publics. We must be their advocates, too.  I&#8217;m convinced, based on experience, that no one else at the table is gonna do this &#8212; most particularly the marketers. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have any problem reconciling advocacy and boundary spanning, and always tried to play that dual role in my career. I recall many a day at the &#8220;table&#8221; when I was the lone voice shouting &#8220;no.&#8221; I was seen as &#8220;not team player.&#8221;  </p>
<p>&#8220;Why are you so negative all the time?&#8221; one boss used to ask me.  I managed to resist the obvious:  &#8220;Because I&#8217;m surrounded by morons with tunnel vision and no morals.&#8221;  (Hey, I worked in advertising agencies too long. What can I say?) To be honest, the lack of moral fiber in business is the primary reason I had to leave the business.  I no longer had the courage to fight that battle, and I saw what was coming &#8212; a shift from responsible business practices to practices based solely on maximizing shareholder value, aka, greed, greed, greed.</p>
<p>But I agree that the 2-way symmetrical model is utopian in may ways.  And that&#8217;s precisely why I admire it.  It gives us a beacon, and it helps to remind us that the goals of the organization must align with the public interest or we&#8217;re all in deep, deep shit.  The events unfolding this week in Washington are a grim reminder that the business world, and those who regulate it, have lost their moral way.  A little symmetry would do us a lot of good. </p>
<p>As for the Excellence studies, I&#8217;m not gonna say too much there.  While I don&#8217;t embrace all of the conclusions, I do admire the values that come out of the work.  It&#8217;s been a long time since I read them, so I don&#8217;t want to misstep.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry I didn&#8217;t jump in on the PR Conversations thread about all this, but I&#8217;m keeping a low profile during the sabbatical and spending a lot less time online. Besides, I don&#8217;t look nearly as smart when I&#8217;m with the PRC gang.  A very intelligent bunch over there.</p>
<p>Be well, friend.  And thanks for dropping in.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Batchelor</title>
		<link>http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/2008/09/25/symmetrical-pr-meets-the-cluetrain-manifesto/#comment-16566</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Batchelor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 19:31:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/?p=1098#comment-16566</guid>
		<description>Hi Bill, welcome back. Over the past week or so I had a series of &quot;discussions&quot; with Dr. Grunig and Grunig supporters at PR Conversations (www.prconversations.com), sparked by a fine essay by Heather Yaxley about potential alternatives to the Excellence/Symmetrical paradigm.

The heart of the contention -- can you imagine that, me contentious? -- from my perspective is that symmetrical seems so utopian. Dr. Grunig also advocates that communicators act as advocates for the &quot;publics,&quot; what I liken as a kind of internal ombudsman.

I just argued that communicators (see how I&#039;m purposely not using &quot;PR&quot; here?), can survey the landscape, tell management about potential outcomes, act completely ethically, etc., but at the end of the day, they are advocates for the organization&#039;s viewpoint. To ask anything more of communicators, in my opinion, is to simply ask too much, particularly since there is no set of rules or guidelines for how communicators should act, outside of ethics and the law. And, even then, we&#039;ve seen how the former falls to the wayside.

I think there is also a question of whether or not symmetrical communications can ever really be, by definition, symmetrical. There are hegemonic/power issues at play, in my opinion, that make this difficult. Though, obviously, I do believe that communicators should listen/talk to the public and build relationships. I just don&#039;t see PR or any other form of communicators occupying some role above that as a part of the organization&#039;s team.

My secondary concern is that the continued reliance on Excellence, which I think if one has studied it and spent some time in the profession, is shown to be a paradigm built on a sand foundation, is great for making careers and getting tenure, but not doing the profession much good. I mean look at the academic journals in which we still must define PR in the first 300 words, or any PR text that sets out to do the same within the first couple chapters. 

Of course, I write all this because I feel like I&#039;m wondering around in a dark forest here. What is the purpose of PR research if it isn&#039;t to provide professionals with some wider understanding? Instead, it feels like we&#039;re paying homage to Excellence and talking to one another. 

I respect and admire your analysis, which is why I ask for guidance. I know that you&#039;re going to lay it out straight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Bill, welcome back. Over the past week or so I had a series of &#8220;discussions&#8221; with Dr. Grunig and Grunig supporters at PR Conversations (www.prconversations.com), sparked by a fine essay by Heather Yaxley about potential alternatives to the Excellence/Symmetrical paradigm.</p>
<p>The heart of the contention &#8212; can you imagine that, me contentious? &#8212; from my perspective is that symmetrical seems so utopian. Dr. Grunig also advocates that communicators act as advocates for the &#8220;publics,&#8221; what I liken as a kind of internal ombudsman.</p>
<p>I just argued that communicators (see how I&#8217;m purposely not using &#8220;PR&#8221; here?), can survey the landscape, tell management about potential outcomes, act completely ethically, etc., but at the end of the day, they are advocates for the organization&#8217;s viewpoint. To ask anything more of communicators, in my opinion, is to simply ask too much, particularly since there is no set of rules or guidelines for how communicators should act, outside of ethics and the law. And, even then, we&#8217;ve seen how the former falls to the wayside.</p>
<p>I think there is also a question of whether or not symmetrical communications can ever really be, by definition, symmetrical. There are hegemonic/power issues at play, in my opinion, that make this difficult. Though, obviously, I do believe that communicators should listen/talk to the public and build relationships. I just don&#8217;t see PR or any other form of communicators occupying some role above that as a part of the organization&#8217;s team.</p>
<p>My secondary concern is that the continued reliance on Excellence, which I think if one has studied it and spent some time in the profession, is shown to be a paradigm built on a sand foundation, is great for making careers and getting tenure, but not doing the profession much good. I mean look at the academic journals in which we still must define PR in the first 300 words, or any PR text that sets out to do the same within the first couple chapters. </p>
<p>Of course, I write all this because I feel like I&#8217;m wondering around in a dark forest here. What is the purpose of PR research if it isn&#8217;t to provide professionals with some wider understanding? Instead, it feels like we&#8217;re paying homage to Excellence and talking to one another. </p>
<p>I respect and admire your analysis, which is why I ask for guidance. I know that you&#8217;re going to lay it out straight.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Sledzik</title>
		<link>http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/2008/09/25/symmetrical-pr-meets-the-cluetrain-manifesto/#comment-16561</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Sledzik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 14:52:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/?p=1098#comment-16561</guid>
		<description>As always, Bill, I appreciate your insights, and I learn from them.

You call out one aspect of Pat Jackson&#039;s approach that conflicts with another.  While Pat embraced the concept of giving voice to key publics (especially those on the fringes), he also was the creator of the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.jjwpr.com/about_jjw/what_we_do_and_why_it_works.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;behavioral model.&quot;&lt;/a&gt;  Pat consistently told his readers and his seminar audiences that CEOs measure PR effectiveness by is its ability to change behavior, since behavior (not awareness or brand preference) ultimately drives the bottom line. His planning process posed the question: What do we want them to do, not do, or let us do?

On the surface, behavioral public relations is the same model embraced by Bernays: the two-way &lt;strong&gt;asymmetrical&lt;/strong&gt; approach in which the result we seek is behavior triggered by carefully constructed persuasion. That said, Jackson and Bernays also emphasize the importance of aligning the organization with the public interest to earn their acceptance and trust.  So both men, Jackson in particular, had at least one foot in the symmetrical world.

I will agree that the &quot;bailout&quot; failed partly because its promoters did a bad job on the propaganda.  It was a one-way sell job, and many folks weren&#039;t buying it.  Part of it I would attribute to the ram-it-through, high-pressure sales approach. (Jackson: People want to be served, not sold.) But also at work here is the problem of &quot;source credibility.&quot;  Congress and President W want us to spend $700 billion to save the world economy.  It&#039;s a message coming from 436 people that very few of would trust with our lunch money. When the sender of the message commands no respect from the receiver, we in PR might as well pack it in and go fishing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As always, Bill, I appreciate your insights, and I learn from them.</p>
<p>You call out one aspect of Pat Jackson&#8217;s approach that conflicts with another.  While Pat embraced the concept of giving voice to key publics (especially those on the fringes), he also was the creator of the <a href="http://www.jjwpr.com/about_jjw/what_we_do_and_why_it_works.htm" rel="nofollow">&#8220;behavioral model.&#8221;</a>  Pat consistently told his readers and his seminar audiences that CEOs measure PR effectiveness by is its ability to change behavior, since behavior (not awareness or brand preference) ultimately drives the bottom line. His planning process posed the question: What do we want them to do, not do, or let us do?</p>
<p>On the surface, behavioral public relations is the same model embraced by Bernays: the two-way <strong>asymmetrical</strong> approach in which the result we seek is behavior triggered by carefully constructed persuasion. That said, Jackson and Bernays also emphasize the importance of aligning the organization with the public interest to earn their acceptance and trust.  So both men, Jackson in particular, had at least one foot in the symmetrical world.</p>
<p>I will agree that the &#8220;bailout&#8221; failed partly because its promoters did a bad job on the propaganda.  It was a one-way sell job, and many folks weren&#8217;t buying it.  Part of it I would attribute to the ram-it-through, high-pressure sales approach. (Jackson: People want to be served, not sold.) But also at work here is the problem of &#8220;source credibility.&#8221;  Congress and President W want us to spend $700 billion to save the world economy.  It&#8217;s a message coming from 436 people that very few of would trust with our lunch money. When the sender of the message commands no respect from the receiver, we in PR might as well pack it in and go fishing.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Huey</title>
		<link>http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/2008/09/25/symmetrical-pr-meets-the-cluetrain-manifesto/#comment-16560</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Huey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 13:57:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/?p=1098#comment-16560</guid>
		<description>Bill, 
As you know, I have certain reservations about the 2-way symmetrical model. I will try to summarize them briefly:

1--It is a tactical process model, not a strategic model. What is the goal of a public relations campaign? Pat Jackson seemed to believe it was participation, not persuasion. But the ultimate goal is to get someone-- or a group of someones-- to think, believe, or act in a certain manner, because they are convinced that doing so will be beneficial. In the Grunig model, strategy formation is just part of a four-step process--not a means of setting, modifying or (most importantly) achieving objectives.



2--It isn’t really a model at all, but a prescription. A true communications model describes how communications work—all of the time. No exceptions. But there are numerous exceptions to the 2-way symmetrical model. Bernays’ “Engineering of Consent” was basically a 2-way asymmetrical model.  The current government bailout plan started as a 1-way asymmetrical model, and is evolving by fits and starts into a 2-way asymmetrical model. Why? Because people absolutely detest the underlying premise of the plan, which is to throw good money after bad in an attempt to re-capitalize the financial system. Therefore, any attempt to modify this flawed plan based on feedback will result in failure. All the business geniuses and government economists in the world saying that this is a great dog food won’t get the dogs to eat it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill,<br />
As you know, I have certain reservations about the 2-way symmetrical model. I will try to summarize them briefly:</p>
<p>1&#8211;It is a tactical process model, not a strategic model. What is the goal of a public relations campaign? Pat Jackson seemed to believe it was participation, not persuasion. But the ultimate goal is to get someone&#8211; or a group of someones&#8211; to think, believe, or act in a certain manner, because they are convinced that doing so will be beneficial. In the Grunig model, strategy formation is just part of a four-step process&#8211;not a means of setting, modifying or (most importantly) achieving objectives.</p>
<p>2&#8211;It isn’t really a model at all, but a prescription. A true communications model describes how communications work—all of the time. No exceptions. But there are numerous exceptions to the 2-way symmetrical model. Bernays’ “Engineering of Consent” was basically a 2-way asymmetrical model.  The current government bailout plan started as a 1-way asymmetrical model, and is evolving by fits and starts into a 2-way asymmetrical model. Why? Because people absolutely detest the underlying premise of the plan, which is to throw good money after bad in an attempt to re-capitalize the financial system. Therefore, any attempt to modify this flawed plan based on feedback will result in failure. All the business geniuses and government economists in the world saying that this is a great dog food won’t get the dogs to eat it.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Sledzik</title>
		<link>http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/2008/09/25/symmetrical-pr-meets-the-cluetrain-manifesto/#comment-16558</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Sledzik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 13:16:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/?p=1098#comment-16558</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Tom.  That&#039;s exactly why I said that Cluetrain -- at least to seasoned PR types -- was more the great &quot;duh&quot; than the great &quot;aha.&quot;  Opening up the system of communication to include our key publics, than adapting to their needs, has been a part of PR for a very long time.  Nothing at all radical here -- though I applaud the authors of Cluetrain for enlightening thousands of marketing and business managers to Web 2.0. It was an important book.

Still, too many of our top managers continue to operate in command-and-control mode, relying on presentation and positioning to guide their communication. As we all know that doesn&#039;t work so well anymore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Tom.  That&#8217;s exactly why I said that Cluetrain &#8212; at least to seasoned PR types &#8212; was more the great &#8220;duh&#8221; than the great &#8220;aha.&#8221;  Opening up the system of communication to include our key publics, than adapting to their needs, has been a part of PR for a very long time.  Nothing at all radical here &#8212; though I applaud the authors of Cluetrain for enlightening thousands of marketing and business managers to Web 2.0. It was an important book.</p>
<p>Still, too many of our top managers continue to operate in command-and-control mode, relying on presentation and positioning to guide their communication. As we all know that doesn&#8217;t work so well anymore.</p>
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