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	<title>Comments on: Bringing the real world to the classroom: A last look at the Hunter College dust-up</title>
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	<link>http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/2008/05/27/bringing-the-real-world-to-the-classroom-a-last-look-at-the-hunter-college-fiasco/</link>
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		<title>By: martin</title>
		<link>http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/2008/05/27/bringing-the-real-world-to-the-classroom-a-last-look-at-the-hunter-college-fiasco/#comment-16250</link>
		<dc:creator>martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 17:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/?p=835#comment-16250</guid>
		<description>I think Bill Huey nailed that question... the professors weren&#039;t qualified to teach this kind of course material. I went back and traced some of the exchanges btw students and their professors on the course blogsite... (this site has since been taken down by Hunter... presumably to hide the evidence of misdeeds by Mr. Weisman)...  the professor was clearly enamored of the idea of a fake blog and ENCOURAGED students&#039; activities in this area, telling them that it was an ingenious ploy. 

I think Mr. Portlock just got run down by forces bigger than himself... profs and administrators who were clueless as to the ethical aspects of PR. They didn&#039;t have his back because they thought his concern was misplaced. Seems he had no means of redress here. At all. For that... yes... Hunter bears all the responsibility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Bill Huey nailed that question&#8230; the professors weren&#8217;t qualified to teach this kind of course material. I went back and traced some of the exchanges btw students and their professors on the course blogsite&#8230; (this site has since been taken down by Hunter&#8230; presumably to hide the evidence of misdeeds by Mr. Weisman)&#8230;  the professor was clearly enamored of the idea of a fake blog and ENCOURAGED students&#8217; activities in this area, telling them that it was an ingenious ploy. </p>
<p>I think Mr. Portlock just got run down by forces bigger than himself&#8230; profs and administrators who were clueless as to the ethical aspects of PR. They didn&#8217;t have his back because they thought his concern was misplaced. Seems he had no means of redress here. At all. For that&#8230; yes&#8230; Hunter bears all the responsibility.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Sledzik</title>
		<link>http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/2008/05/27/bringing-the-real-world-to-the-classroom-a-last-look-at-the-hunter-college-fiasco/#comment-16249</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Sledzik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 12:44:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/?p=835#comment-16249</guid>
		<description>I feel for Tim on this one, Martin.  The position of some untenured faculty can be -- well -- downright tenuous.  In my years on the tenure track I was encouraged to work hard and not make waves. That&#039;s pretty much what I did -- except for when I grew the ponytail near the end! I&#039;m thankful we didn&#039;t have blogs back then, as would surely have pissed off someone and been fired.

While I don&#039;t fault Mr. Portlock so much in this case, the faculty at Hunter has to bear some responsibility here.  A junior faculty member was put in an untenable position.  This means it was up to the senior faculty to stand by him -- to fight the battle for him.  Maybe they did that and lost the fight.  But had the IACC mess happened at Kent State, I can think of a handful of my colleagues who&#039;d have had my back.  What happened at Hunter?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel for Tim on this one, Martin.  The position of some untenured faculty can be &#8212; well &#8212; downright tenuous.  In my years on the tenure track I was encouraged to work hard and not make waves. That&#8217;s pretty much what I did &#8212; except for when I grew the ponytail near the end! I&#8217;m thankful we didn&#8217;t have blogs back then, as would surely have pissed off someone and been fired.</p>
<p>While I don&#8217;t fault Mr. Portlock so much in this case, the faculty at Hunter has to bear some responsibility here.  A junior faculty member was put in an untenable position.  This means it was up to the senior faculty to stand by him &#8212; to fight the battle for him.  Maybe they did that and lost the fight.  But had the IACC mess happened at Kent State, I can think of a handful of my colleagues who&#8217;d have had my back.  What happened at Hunter?</p>
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		<title>By: martin</title>
		<link>http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/2008/05/27/bringing-the-real-world-to-the-classroom-a-last-look-at-the-hunter-college-fiasco/#comment-16246</link>
		<dc:creator>martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 22:53:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/?p=835#comment-16246</guid>
		<description>By the way... in my post I also have some disturbing quotes from students and co-Professor Ben Weisman. The prof urged his students:

“Def share Heidi’s story and the concept or promoting an anticounterfieting [sic] eventy [sic] with a counterfiet [sic] person, etc.. perhaps think about an analogy? And how we used integrated concepts and media to promote the event and idea at large-” 

Weisman was encouraging the student in the brilliant idea that the kid could use the tag line &quot;You got faked!&quot; in revealing the fictional nature of the Heidi Cee blog to a reporter. The student thought that &quot;faking out&quot; the journalist would be a great way to make an impression and get the reporter&#039;s attention... 

Well... I guess he wasn&#039;t wrong in that, was he?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way&#8230; in my post I also have some disturbing quotes from students and co-Professor Ben Weisman. The prof urged his students:</p>
<p>“Def share Heidi’s story and the concept or promoting an anticounterfieting [sic] eventy [sic] with a counterfiet [sic] person, etc.. perhaps think about an analogy? And how we used integrated concepts and media to promote the event and idea at large-” </p>
<p>Weisman was encouraging the student in the brilliant idea that the kid could use the tag line &#8220;You got faked!&#8221; in revealing the fictional nature of the Heidi Cee blog to a reporter. The student thought that &#8220;faking out&#8221; the journalist would be a great way to make an impression and get the reporter&#8217;s attention&#8230; </p>
<p>Well&#8230; I guess he wasn&#8217;t wrong in that, was he?</p>
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		<title>By: martin</title>
		<link>http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/2008/05/27/bringing-the-real-world-to-the-classroom-a-last-look-at-the-hunter-college-fiasco/#comment-16245</link>
		<dc:creator>martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 22:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/?p=835#comment-16245</guid>
		<description>Hi Bill... We may never get to the bottom of what really happened here. But in a post I wrote on this subject I got a comment from the guy who actually taught the course... Tim Portlock, who says he was pressure into teaching it... presumably for fear of losing his part-time position at Hunter. He also said he had misgivings aboutn the content from the very beginning but was pressure by IACC officials as to what content to include. It seems there was quite a bit of nefarious activity behind the scenes that people at Hunter/Coach/IACC are not owning up to. 

Mr. Portlock directed me to an article for Inside Higher Ed... http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/03/03/hunter

(This will be a good resource for Kami.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Bill&#8230; We may never get to the bottom of what really happened here. But in a post I wrote on this subject I got a comment from the guy who actually taught the course&#8230; Tim Portlock, who says he was pressure into teaching it&#8230; presumably for fear of losing his part-time position at Hunter. He also said he had misgivings aboutn the content from the very beginning but was pressure by IACC officials as to what content to include. It seems there was quite a bit of nefarious activity behind the scenes that people at Hunter/Coach/IACC are not owning up to. </p>
<p>Mr. Portlock directed me to an article for Inside Higher Ed&#8230; <a href="http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/03/03/hunter" rel="nofollow">http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2008/03/03/hunter</a></p>
<p>(This will be a good resource for Kami.)</p>
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		<title>By: Nikki Rubin</title>
		<link>http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/2008/05/27/bringing-the-real-world-to-the-classroom-a-last-look-at-the-hunter-college-fiasco/#comment-16243</link>
		<dc:creator>Nikki Rubin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 15:17:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/?p=835#comment-16243</guid>
		<description>One thing i have found incredibly helpful is the &#039;real world&#039; type classes in Public Relations we have here at Kent State. I mean, how else do you really learn than without putting it to the test. I can see where this would go terribly wrong if the students weren&#039;t taught consistently that the number one guideline in PR is to tell the truth. Those are the students that will continue to give PR a bad name in the future from their unethical behavior. 

This particular case is actually incredibly intriguing and yet would be very difficult to pull off. I see knockoff handbags everyday passing me on the streets, i guess i would consider myself a sort of purse expert and can spot them a mile away. Heck, you go to New York City and china street is filled with bags that look so real, and yet really aren&#039;t. As college students, many of us don&#039;t have the money to go out and buy a two thousand dollar purse so a knock off is really the only way to go. Maybe those students didn&#039;t really believe in the cause, maybe they couldn&#039;t be true advocates. In any case, it shouldn&#039;t matter. 

I couldn&#039;t even see where a fake blog would even work very well in this case. Regardless, they lied their publics. I am surprised that Coach didn&#039;t put their foot down, they should have known better. Where were the teachers and advisors?! It&#039;s shocking to me that this wasn&#039;t pulled from the campaign when reviewed by the advisors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing i have found incredibly helpful is the &#8216;real world&#8217; type classes in Public Relations we have here at Kent State. I mean, how else do you really learn than without putting it to the test. I can see where this would go terribly wrong if the students weren&#8217;t taught consistently that the number one guideline in PR is to tell the truth. Those are the students that will continue to give PR a bad name in the future from their unethical behavior. </p>
<p>This particular case is actually incredibly intriguing and yet would be very difficult to pull off. I see knockoff handbags everyday passing me on the streets, i guess i would consider myself a sort of purse expert and can spot them a mile away. Heck, you go to New York City and china street is filled with bags that look so real, and yet really aren&#8217;t. As college students, many of us don&#8217;t have the money to go out and buy a two thousand dollar purse so a knock off is really the only way to go. Maybe those students didn&#8217;t really believe in the cause, maybe they couldn&#8217;t be true advocates. In any case, it shouldn&#8217;t matter. </p>
<p>I couldn&#8217;t even see where a fake blog would even work very well in this case. Regardless, they lied their publics. I am surprised that Coach didn&#8217;t put their foot down, they should have known better. Where were the teachers and advisors?! It&#8217;s shocking to me that this wasn&#8217;t pulled from the campaign when reviewed by the advisors.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Sledzik</title>
		<link>http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/2008/05/27/bringing-the-real-world-to-the-classroom-a-last-look-at-the-hunter-college-fiasco/#comment-16242</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Sledzik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 12:54:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/?p=835#comment-16242</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d love to do another post on this topic, but only because of what I see happening within Hunter College.  Since few of my readers care about academic issues, I have decided to let it go.

I am troubled by the comments I see posted to &lt;a href=&quot;http://insidehighered.com/news/2008/05/13/hunter&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this story at insidehighered.com.&lt;/a&gt;  I expect these come from academic types, as that is typically who reads the site...

&lt;blockquote&gt;From Henry Giroux: The university now adopts the aesthetic of the mall and its administrators increasingly resemble public relations hacks.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Ah...This is what happens when the boys and girls misbehave.  We are all painted with the same broad brush, as we were by &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/06/01/sunday/main4142947.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Andrew Cohen&lt;/a&gt; the other day at CBS. We simply can&#039;t police the behavior of all PR people, and since we aren&#039;t a licensed profession, we can&#039;t toss out the slimeballs.  But hey, lawyers are licensed, and it hasn&#039;t helped their image, has it?

&lt;blockquote&gt;From Aaron Barlow: To Giroux’s point: the commercial model doesn’t form well to an academic setting, as this rather slimy incident shows.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, I think Aaron is wrong on this, but he&#039;s entitled to his opinion.  Every other school working on the AICC project did just fine.  And here at Kent State we partner with corporate sponsors all the time.  But the difference is, we pay close attention who what the students AND the clients are doing.  It&#039;s part of the job.

&lt;blockquote&gt;From Bob Hirsch: Conducting a human subjects study without obtaining Institutional Research Board (IRB) approval appears to be a significant problem that has been overlooked. Would someone please answer the question, “was this research on Hunter students approved by an IRB (or equivalent)?”

Maybe I missed something, but didn’t the class students have research conducted on them by the company (survey of attitudes) and didn’t the non-class students have surveys and opinions assessed for use by the company? The “course” appears to have been a study by the company to determine if the company could modify the attitudes of students (i.e. brainwashing, mind control, or ?, ...).&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yikes!  Call out the Feds!  Bob is correct when he says research performed on students -- or any human subjects for that matter -- requires IRB approval.  Our students secure that approval routinely when they do research on behalf of clients.  But IRB approval is not required for partnerships with clients -- only for the research done on their behalf. The idea that these companies are dealing in &quot;mind control&quot; or &quot;brainwashing&quot; is patently ridiculous.  This ain&#039;t a Frankenstein movie. 

I will admit that many of the companies who back IACC sell consumer items at obscene profit margins.  But you know, those who pays $500 for a handbag or $20,000 for a watch deserve what they get.  That&#039;s another post for another day.  
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d love to do another post on this topic, but only because of what I see happening within Hunter College.  Since few of my readers care about academic issues, I have decided to let it go.</p>
<p>I am troubled by the comments I see posted to <a href="http://insidehighered.com/news/2008/05/13/hunter" rel="nofollow">this story at insidehighered.com.</a>  I expect these come from academic types, as that is typically who reads the site&#8230;</p>
<blockquote><p>From Henry Giroux: The university now adopts the aesthetic of the mall and its administrators increasingly resemble public relations hacks.</p></blockquote>
<p>Ah&#8230;This is what happens when the boys and girls misbehave.  We are all painted with the same broad brush, as we were by <a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/06/01/sunday/main4142947.shtml" rel="nofollow">Andrew Cohen</a> the other day at CBS. We simply can&#8217;t police the behavior of all PR people, and since we aren&#8217;t a licensed profession, we can&#8217;t toss out the slimeballs.  But hey, lawyers are licensed, and it hasn&#8217;t helped their image, has it?</p>
<blockquote><p>From Aaron Barlow: To Giroux’s point: the commercial model doesn’t form well to an academic setting, as this rather slimy incident shows.</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, I think Aaron is wrong on this, but he&#8217;s entitled to his opinion.  Every other school working on the AICC project did just fine.  And here at Kent State we partner with corporate sponsors all the time.  But the difference is, we pay close attention who what the students AND the clients are doing.  It&#8217;s part of the job.</p>
<blockquote><p>From Bob Hirsch: Conducting a human subjects study without obtaining Institutional Research Board (IRB) approval appears to be a significant problem that has been overlooked. Would someone please answer the question, “was this research on Hunter students approved by an IRB (or equivalent)?”</p>
<p>Maybe I missed something, but didn’t the class students have research conducted on them by the company (survey of attitudes) and didn’t the non-class students have surveys and opinions assessed for use by the company? The “course” appears to have been a study by the company to determine if the company could modify the attitudes of students (i.e. brainwashing, mind control, or ?, &#8230;).</p></blockquote>
<p>Yikes!  Call out the Feds!  Bob is correct when he says research performed on students &#8212; or any human subjects for that matter &#8212; requires IRB approval.  Our students secure that approval routinely when they do research on behalf of clients.  But IRB approval is not required for partnerships with clients &#8212; only for the research done on their behalf. The idea that these companies are dealing in &#8220;mind control&#8221; or &#8220;brainwashing&#8221; is patently ridiculous.  This ain&#8217;t a Frankenstein movie. </p>
<p>I will admit that many of the companies who back IACC sell consumer items at obscene profit margins.  But you know, those who pays $500 for a handbag or $20,000 for a watch deserve what they get.  That&#8217;s another post for another day.</p>
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		<title>By: Serine H.</title>
		<link>http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/2008/05/27/bringing-the-real-world-to-the-classroom-a-last-look-at-the-hunter-college-fiasco/#comment-16240</link>
		<dc:creator>Serine H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jun 2008 04:31:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/?p=835#comment-16240</guid>
		<description>It is so true that stupid people learn from their own mistakes and the smart people learn from the other’s. Well, clearly we can see who is who in this case. 
Situations and failures like this are a great way of learning valuable lesson, both ethical and moral. It gives as an opportunity to think about our own steps, behavior and professional choices. At this point Kent state’s student should be very grateful towards their instructors and advisers. The case described above was not just a wrongdoing of the students; it was a failure of the faculty stuff to supervise them and most importantly to build a strong moral awareness towards each case they take. 
I can’t argue that the campaign was not well developed; they’ve had a good motivational strategy to drive the student to the blog and expose them to the main message but at the same time a great strategy isn’t always about goal achievement, it is the method and the approach you use to achieve that goal without omitting any serious and common ethical policies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is so true that stupid people learn from their own mistakes and the smart people learn from the other’s. Well, clearly we can see who is who in this case.<br />
Situations and failures like this are a great way of learning valuable lesson, both ethical and moral. It gives as an opportunity to think about our own steps, behavior and professional choices. At this point Kent state’s student should be very grateful towards their instructors and advisers. The case described above was not just a wrongdoing of the students; it was a failure of the faculty stuff to supervise them and most importantly to build a strong moral awareness towards each case they take.<br />
I can’t argue that the campaign was not well developed; they’ve had a good motivational strategy to drive the student to the blog and expose them to the main message but at the same time a great strategy isn’t always about goal achievement, it is the method and the approach you use to achieve that goal without omitting any serious and common ethical policies.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Huey</title>
		<link>http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/2008/05/27/bringing-the-real-world-to-the-classroom-a-last-look-at-the-hunter-college-fiasco/#comment-16239</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Huey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 13:43:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/?p=835#comment-16239</guid>
		<description>That post sounds interesting, and I look forward to seeing it.
In the early Nineties, I taught at a state U. where a few of us tried to raise the bar higher—not even really, really high—and the students revolted.
The director and the spineless faculty caved, claiming that they were acting in the students’ best interests.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That post sounds interesting, and I look forward to seeing it.<br />
In the early Nineties, I taught at a state U. where a few of us tried to raise the bar higher—not even really, really high—and the students revolted.<br />
The director and the spineless faculty caved, claiming that they were acting in the students’ best interests.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Sledzik</title>
		<link>http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/2008/05/27/bringing-the-real-world-to-the-classroom-a-last-look-at-the-hunter-college-fiasco/#comment-16237</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Sledzik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 13:45:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/?p=835#comment-16237</guid>
		<description>Agreed, Bill. Ben Sonnenberg gets little credit in the texts for &quot;PR Principles&quot; classes.  Most treatments of PR history -- other than the work of Scott Cutlip -- strike me as &quot;Lee Bernays and all the other folks.&quot;  There is some fertile ground to be tilled in the area of public relations history for anyone who wants to do the work.

I want to go back to your point about what&#039;s wrong with PR education.  It reminds me of a post that&#039;s been sitting in my queue for about 6 months.  Here is my working title: &quot;Let&#039;s raise the bar for PR education, and let&#039;s raise it really, really, really, really, really, really high.&quot;  If we want PR to be seen as more than the &quot;soft side of business&quot;  (something that emerges in the gender research too often)  we must significantly reduce the number of PR graduates we produce by significantly increasing the rigor of our programs.

I&#039;ll work on that post as soon as I survive the 3-week crash course I&#039;m teaching.  One more week.  Just one more week.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed, Bill. Ben Sonnenberg gets little credit in the texts for &#8220;PR Principles&#8221; classes.  Most treatments of PR history &#8212; other than the work of Scott Cutlip &#8212; strike me as &#8220;Lee Bernays and all the other folks.&#8221;  There is some fertile ground to be tilled in the area of public relations history for anyone who wants to do the work.</p>
<p>I want to go back to your point about what&#8217;s wrong with PR education.  It reminds me of a post that&#8217;s been sitting in my queue for about 6 months.  Here is my working title: &#8220;Let&#8217;s raise the bar for PR education, and let&#8217;s raise it really, really, really, really, really, really high.&#8221;  If we want PR to be seen as more than the &#8220;soft side of business&#8221;  (something that emerges in the gender research too often)  we must significantly reduce the number of PR graduates we produce by significantly increasing the rigor of our programs.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll work on that post as soon as I survive the 3-week crash course I&#8217;m teaching.  One more week.  Just one more week.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Huey</title>
		<link>http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/2008/05/27/bringing-the-real-world-to-the-classroom-a-last-look-at-the-hunter-college-fiasco/#comment-16230</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Huey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 13:08:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/?p=835#comment-16230</guid>
		<description>Quick note, Bill. I read Stewart Ewen&#039;s book on PR, and while it develops some interesting historical precedents, it fails to mention Benjamin Sonnenberg even once. Sonnenberg&#039;s contributions to the development of the business--such as dealing only with the person at the top of the organization--were fewer in number but no less significant than those of Bernays. 
To me, that is a fatal flaw in what purports to be &quot;A Social History of Spin.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quick note, Bill. I read Stewart Ewen&#8217;s book on PR, and while it develops some interesting historical precedents, it fails to mention Benjamin Sonnenberg even once. Sonnenberg&#8217;s contributions to the development of the business&#8211;such as dealing only with the person at the top of the organization&#8211;were fewer in number but no less significant than those of Bernays.<br />
To me, that is a fatal flaw in what purports to be &#8220;A Social History of Spin.&#8221;</p>
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